I think Tebow is a great guy, I really do. I think he has a great head on his shoulders and I think he's a good role model for kids. And, contrary to what people say about him, I don't think he's "faking" anything ... he really just is who he is.

All that said, yes, I think the whole "religion in football" thing is just nonsense. I'm an atheist, but I could care less if people are religious or not. And, I don't throw my support towards someone just because they believe one thing over another. But religionists simply need to understand how incredibly pretentious and egocentric their actions can look when exclaiming how "they are blessed" or "god has given them this or that."

Really?

So, all the @#$% going on in the world ... all the things going wrong in peoples lives ... you think god is still showing up to your games and helping you throw touchdowns? God's looking around ... sees thousands of children starving to death everyday and says: "Meh, isn't Tebow playing today?"

Come on. Get over yourselves.

Christians: "Tebow prays..God answers his prayers. Proof of God!"

Me: "Honestly? You think God cares about Tebows prayers, when there's millions of children in the world dying from AID's, starving to death, being raped, murdered, and being forced in slavery? You'd think your God had more important things to worry about than who won a football game."

Christians: "God is all powerful! He can do anything and everything, and you shouldn't question him!"

Me: "Then why not help all the children in the world dying from AID's, starving to death, being raped, murdered, and being forced in slavery?"

Christians: "...because God works in mysterious ways!"

Me: "Like letting all those children die from AID's, starve to death, be raped, murdered, and be forced in slavery? Yet he takes interest in football? Seems like your good needs to get his priorities in order!"

Christians: *rages and goes on a tirade of abuse and compares me to the devil, and talks about how I'm a sinner and how I need Jesus Christ*

Checkmate! Your move Christians!

I'm not a Bronco's fan. And I have not kept up with any football since the late 90's. But I have heard of Tim Tebow; how his humility, character, and professed Christian belief are rocking the news. (Even Bill Maher is talking about him.) Tim Tebow has re-established the better interpretation of the phrase "Duh, Winning!"

Now, if Little Lindsey Lohan could just find her niche...we could shut down the internet

Chad, you got it backwards.

Tebow does not think / feel God helps him throw touchdowns nor 'blessed' by God by becoming an NFL quarterback.

Tebow feels blessed by God for allow him, Tim Tebow, the opportunity to use his, "Tim Tebow's", (God-given) abilities to their full potential.

I am not rich, I don't live in a big house, and I don't drive anything close to a new vehicle, I am not the greatest, and I do make my share of mistakes...yet, I still feel blessed.

Yo Comrade and Tallman

It's obvious you guys feel you can provide context within this conversation because you are Christians. However, It's also pretty obvious you don't follow football. I do. And I watched Tebow's press conference after the game and all he was talking about was how "blessed he was to play the game" and how he "gives thanks to his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for giving him the skills necessary to play the game." This is exactly what I was saying.

I understand you have a major man-crush on the guy because he wears his faith on his sleeve as he does. And that's completely fine ... I can understand that. However, the ontological arguments that I and the others on here have been making about said faith/an immersive god, have yet to be rationally addressed.

You dont have to love his act.

Chad,

I honestly can't tell you why God allows that stuff to happen. I take what happens with faith in mind, and I understand that seems illogical to you, I even doubt myself sometimes. But lets back away from this and look at your criticism of Tebow. Tebow has actually done something to solve those problems you discussed. Could God be solving these some of problems through Tebow's charitable actions? I know this simple explanation seems rather boring. After rooming with an Atheist for a year, I've come to the conclusion that Atheists only trust three things: their logic, the scientific method, and their own eyes. Short of God descending from the heavens, amidst a torrent of fire and lightning, this conversation will be a circular argument of logic vs. my gut feeling (I know, crazy right?). But I've also found out that atheists would rather die than have God actually appear out of thin air, because who would want to live with all the "preachy" Christians saying, "I told you so, I told you so, I told you so."

yours truly: That's the most honest thing I've ever heard a person of faith say... Mad respect!

Thank you NickyMan, you should also silently thank my roommate, for giving me perspective and challenging me. Respectful discussion benefits both sides.

You want a rational response? I think I can give it to you. I don't know why bad things happen to good people, or even more why bad things happen to people who lack the ability to run from them. I'm no good at quoting specific scriptures (aside from John 3:16), but there is a moment in the bible where the Pharisees bring Jesus to a blind man and say, "Who sinned that this man should suffer, this man or his parents?" Jesus says, "Neither, this man is blind so the glory of God may be revealed to you." He then cures the man of his blindness to the surprise of the Pharisees. What I'm trying to say is that there will always be evil and suffering in the world (at least until judgement day), but the greatest movements in religious faiths, namely Christianity, are happening in these African and Asian countries without the rights and basic necessities we have. Miracles are happening. Yes, God does work in mysterious ways. In Africa, where all that suffering does occur, people are fighting every day to help, be it missionary or military, and so many of them claim strength from God. God works, not only directly as an omnipotent force, but through people, and I see these people every day changing the world and alleviating the suffering in third world countries so they might become an example for God's glory. What I just realized as I was writing this? I can't justify my belief because that's what it is, belief. I can't give you the facts and say that everything will always turn out for the best. But I know that I've seen a girl with cerebral palsy walk across a ramp, and a woman bent double, using poles on her wrists to walk, go down stairs and walk around her trailer to see what had been done for her. Miracles do happen and suffering is abolished when we put ourselves out there for God. Go to Africa yourself and resolve the, "ontological arguments" that have been stated if you believe that is what it takes, and I'm sure that you'll see happiness you didn't think possible in those people with nothing, because many of them have so much hope in God.

I honestly can't tell you why God allows that stuff to happen

That question actually answers itself. Bad things happen to good people because we live in a natural world where bad things happen. It only gets confusing when you try and inject an omniscient, omnipresent entity that looks after and intervenes in his "creation".

Could God be solving these some of problems through Tebow's charitable actions?

Isn't it weird how an all-knowing, all-powerful "conjurer" only seems able to work through wholly natural means? Hamas is the main source of charitable activity within Palestine, does that make their religion true? Does that make their god true?

But I've also found out that atheists would rather die than have God actually appear out of thin air

Which god?

Yours? Why yours?

Because we live in the U.S. and the majority of the population believes in the Christian god? Don't you think if we were having this conversation in Iran, you would be saying the same exact thing (but only believing in a completely different god?) That alone should give you pause ... moreso than anything an atheist roommate could ever tell you.

The world is a very big place my friend. It's rather cute that we think our god(s) are "truth" and "light" ... but in many other portions of the world ... you're the atheist. Not me.

I am not a Bronco fan but I admire Tebow who is not afraid to express his appreciation to the one who he know who gave him a talent that enables him to do what he loves and shares in the glory with all involved thru the good and bad and knows that God gives all of us the opportunity. It is us who has the opportunity to thank and admit who has the real Power. U may be religious or not, but if u have standards, integrity and walk to your own music no matter what thru the good and bad times, that is a rare thing to see on a weekly basis, no matter what u do. It is just refreshing to see someone who does his job to his best ability and never promises nothing, vs seeing people who continues to promise things when they know they can not/wont deliver (example - the highest office in America) on the promises they profess to do.

*cough* The God, "Allah" in Muslim belief is the same God as that of Christianity and Muhammad accepted the teachings of both the Old and New testaments *cough* same God. I'm sure you'd like to discuss other Gods as well however, but I simply can't make the argument. What I really want to know, from a logical perspective, is how something came to be from nothing. If matter cannot be created or destroyed, where did we come from? How do you explain the sudden weight loss, that umpteenth of a gram, that occurs upon a person's death () (air weighs the same inside and outside of the body). Tell me how a paraplegic can walk again after a bike crash, while we still don't have an operation to fix her ()? I just really want to know.

What those who hump the leg of this guy miss is what we all know.

You only support this team because he dovetails with your religious beliefs, you (if you even cared about football at all before) most likely supported another team.

Those who wear their beliefs on their sleeve and have to interject them into even moment of their life are either fanatics or putting on an act.

If Tebow was truly as reverent as he claims, then he would not work on the Lord's day...Sunday. That exposes his hypocrisy. You are being played.

Wild eyed fanatical anything is generally not good.

FYI I am an Episcopalian, I teach Sunday School. And I hope those I teach serve God, but as it says in the Bible...To Everything there is a season....and it does not refer to Football.

Crap you're right. Darn me for respecting a Christian quarterback and not continuing to cheer for the REDSKINS! (Superbowl Champions of 2013 may I add). Haha, by the way you "teach" Sunday School. No offense, I'm sure you're a nice person, but really, the only person who ever followed all of God's commands was Jesus, and I would say he was a little, "fanatical." If we all just sit in our pews and drool in front of our pastors (which I do every Sunday possible, haha) nothing will get done! I understand your conservatism... to a point.

That Kid: As far as your question on how the universe could be created from nothing... it's called quantum mechanics. Google "a universe from nothing", it should be the first youtube link you see. It's a 60 min video worth watching. It's a common question Christians use against non-believers because they have the idea in their head that the universe and everything in it is too complex to have been an accident, and thus it proves intelligent design, but just because they can't grasp things like science, physics, and geometry, doesn't mean it can't be explained, or that it's not true. Not being able to explain something in a reasonable manner is no excuse to outright deny it. You really should stop insulting others too!

Could you actually explain it to me in layman's terms (this isn't even a sarcastic "prove it")? This has honestly fascinated me for a while and I honestly don't have sixty minutes but would like to talk about it. And I'm sorry, I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of degrading someone for making their faith known to others, and the teaching on Sunday thing just made me laugh. Like I said, Jesus was definitely viewed as the fanatic in his day, I mean he overturned tables in a temple because he thought it was degrading. Pretty intense.

Kid,

While you're busy clearing your throat, you may want to start actually reading the foundational texts within what you're debating. You're confusing the Alpha/Omega of the Yahweh faiths (Including Judaism) with that of their central tenants, doctrines and dogmas. Not to mention that you completely gloss over the tiny fact that neither Christianity nor Islam can logically endorse the other religion's distinctive claims and practices without denying their own. The most glaring difference that again, you simply choose to ignore, is that of the Trinity. Islam respects Jesus as "prophet", but not as the "Son" of god ... and most certainly not god himself. A simple read of the Quran would lend a more enlightened view of why we both are considered infidels within Islam.

However, all that said. It really doesn't matter as you've completely circumvented the point. If you're more comfortable comparing other religions ... my original point still remains.

What I really want to know, from a logical perspective, is how something came to be from nothing.

Seriously?

So here's your position essentially: "The universe is much, much too complicated to have been created through natural means. After all ... how can something come from nothing."

So what's your solution to this problem? "An infinitely more complex entity than that of the universe must have just popped into existence from nothing and created everything else afterwards."

Wow ... and we see no circular reasoning here?

Here's a hint for you, science actually can tell us a great deal about the universe's origins. try researching Lawrence Krauss and come back to us. Science actually uses evidence, logic, and mathematical solutions to try and understand the natural world we find ourselves in. It's quite a shame more people don't seem to appreciate that.

Okay, I watched a shortened version. The great assumption to me is that energy comes from no energy to interact with nothing to create mass. I'll admit, it takes as much faith to believe in that as it does to believe in God. I'll definitely check out the sixty minute video another time however to see if it is better explained.

It's a long an complicated process to explain actually. I believe a friend of mine is actually about to make a post an explain it to you though.

WHOAH .... could this be a sign from god?

MSNBC juts literally posted the video I was talking about.

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/09/10076985-how-to-get-a-cosmos-from-nothing

I don't care what religion one belongs to. But I do think people who shun others faith are lacking the principle of freedom. It seems to me most bigotry and persecution these days, rest in the arms of people who believe in themselves to know all the answers. How smug it must be to be you. In those cases they see themselves as God. And for this, I see arrogance and the real closed minds. You see most of the self-gratified revel in their know all, you people are stupid, how could you be so ignorant attitudes. Now for those who aspire to reach out and touch faith "God Bless You". And those who "know it all" and would deny people their faith. Go f$@k (I mean) Bless Yourselves.

:P They probably saw what we were talking about and posted it. That video is old!

I'll admit, you got me. I haven't read the Quran and I did indeed gloss over the Trinity part. I agree, if a different God did appear I would be greatly surprised. I wouldn't know what to do with myself. I don't believe that the universe was created through natural means, not because of its complexity but because of the sheer miracle of existence. So I don't want to degrade you, but where do you think we go after death. Assuming you're atheist, do you believe that our consciousnesses simply deteriorate until we go into eternal blackness and nonexistence? It's strange because I feel that our souls are not one with our bodies and must go somewhere (I actually had a link in one of my above comments of the weights but you can't post links so...), otherwise our lives are entirely meaningless. Deride me as childish for finding something to believe in but I do not have the strength to live for the sake of living, especially if there is not one thing we can do here to change our lots after death. Childish maybe, but there is a measure of faith in the quantum mechanics that give you something from nothing, and until we possess all knowledge there will always be faith in something. I see that I can't make some miraculous conversion but at the same time I struggle with life as it is. I still firmly hold my beliefs but I can't make you change yours. At least I can tell you've taken the time to look, the majority of my knowledge is derived from the bible, and I'm okay with that. The one thing I can tell you is that if every person lived by the doctrines of the bible (the entire bible excluding what I partially view as human fallacy in the letters of the gospel as it pertains to sexism) the world would be a better place. Period. And I will debate that with you as long as you like.

Max: isn't that exactly what most Christians do? Claim to know it all? I guess you haven't spent enough time around atheist to realize that we don't claim to know everything. We just claim to know more than you and have a better understanding of the universe because we actually seek out the answers instead of having them delivered to us in the form of a fairytale. This close-mindedness that you speak of is exactly what we atheist have to deal with handling fundamentalist like yourself. In fact you seem pretty close-minded. By the way telling people to go "F" themselves is a great way to display how Godly you are.

Frankly True, it seems to be you who is decieved. "If Tebow was truly as reverent as he claims, then he would not work on the Lord's day...Sunday. That exposes his hypocrisy. You are being played."

Perhaps if you were to tread history, you would know the truth and it would set you free from YOUR hypocrisy. You see, somewhere around AD 300, there was a PAGAN Roman named Constantine (The First, The Great, he went by both.) His mother was a Christian however, he was raised by his father in the house of the Praetorian Guard, as his father was a Praetorian commander.

It was Constantine who incorporated the pagan rituals of his father with the Christian beliefs. It is said that as he was on his way to battle one day, he looked up and saw a cross in front of the sun. This combination of his father's "god" the sun and his mother's insignia attached to Christianity assured him in his mind that he would win the battle, which he did. At the time around AD 325, there was much controversy among the various sects of Christianity, much as it is today (as evidenced by your disrespect for the belief of others while bragging about being Episcopalian). In order to put an end to the bickering among the people, Constantine, who did not become a baptized Christian until just before his death, ordained that certain local bishops, who were beholden to him, should meet at Nicea and establish certain doctrines. These doctrines would be the melding of paganism with Christianity. Among these doctrines would be that the "Lord's Day" (otherwise known as the Sabbath) would be held on the day honoring his father's god, the sun (Sunday). In order to sell this to the Christians, it was explained that since Jesus arose as was prophesied, then the first day of the week, which was dedicated to the sun god would represent the new beginning through Christ.

Addidtionally, the Nicene Council (or Council of Nicea, if you will), also established that the day celebrating the Babylonean goddes, Oestere ans the spring equinox would be recognized as the day to celebrate the Christian ressurection day. That day, as you well know, is always a Sunday. Had we continued to follow the biblical Lunar calendar instead of the pagan calendar that we follow today, the day od ressurection would always follow on the 4th day of Passover.

Before you call someone a hypocrite, perhaps it would be best for you to know your history. As an Evangelical minister, I can tell you that you are the deceived one and you are the one following the myths.

Nicky Man, it is much easier to believe that an omnipotent spiritual being created everything we are and have through intelligent design than to believe that all the materials were always existing and just waiting to accidentally fall right into place. It is easier to believe in our God than to think we are all here by accident.

Yeah, I'm with you I didn't like his post all that much, part of the deal is that Christians are supposed to act in accordance with God, WWJD has real significance here and he would definitely not have said that. And by the way, I feel as though, "We don't claim to know everything, we just claim to know more than you." Has a nice meme future ahead of it.

@Nickyman by the way

Max

Matthew 18:25: "But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made."

Luke 12:45-48: "The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart."

Oh the "freedom". I tell ya, it's just palpable isn't it?

@Chad

Matthew 18:26-27, 33-35: "But the man fell down before his master and begged him, 'Please, be patient with me, and I will pay it all.' Then his master was filled with pity for him and he released him and forgave his debt." After refusing to forgive his fellow servant the servant is brought back "Shouldn't you have mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had mercy on you?' Then the angry king sent the man to prison to be tortured until he had paid his entire debt. "That's what my heavenly Father will do to you if you refuse to forgive your brothers and sisters from your heart."

Luke 12: 47-48: "And a servant who knows what the master wants but isn't prepared and doesn't carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who does not know and then does something wrong will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return;" You must live out your faith or face the consequences which is fair considering the evangelizing many do.

The Ephesians, yeah respect your masters, it's a basic tenant repeated throughout the bible.

Freedom isn't the goal regardless, but the selective scripture selection (not quite giving the whole picture) gets to me a little. The bible wouldn't have "Commandments," if it was meant to give one more freedom of morals. It's nice that you have a bible on hand. Or you just searched oppression in the New Testament on the internet... not so nice...

Another thing you have to consider is all the things wrong with the bible. I could pretty much debunk the entire religion just by citing the book of genesis. Although I'd have to explain everything wrong with it in scientific terms, and since most of you fundamentalist won't except science as fact, it's pretty much pointless to even go there.

One couple had many children populating the entire world? Inbreeding only damages people by improving the chances of combining genetic defects, correct? One might assume that the humans God first created had no flaws and could therefore do this very thing. I understand what you mean though, I am unlikely to be swayed in my opinions based on the biology of so very long ago which at the dawn of creation a "fundamentalist" as myself would believe was much different. P.S. I'm sorry I'm obnoxious and comment so much with such long statements, I have trouble stopping myself when I do stop by these kinds of forums.

Kid

Wait a minute ... why are you referencing "commandments"? Aren't you guys always saying we can't quote the old testament because of the new covenant? If that's not the case, I'd be more than happy to point out all the blatant condolences of slavery shown in the old. You know, the whole "Don't beat your slave so hard that they die on the second day" stuff. You know ... the ones coming straight from god.

Isn't it a little sad that your god didn't just come out and say (in either testament): "Hey guys. Slavery is bad!!" Nah ... your "moral compass" couldn't even get that right.

The New Covenant... ugh, this'll be long haha. The Commandments of the Old Testament stand true. I'm sorry, the bible did not come out and say that slavery is bad. It happened, and it is unfortunately still happening. I don't believe it is right. Regardless. The issue of the New Covenant is that forgiveness comes into play. Before, it was limited to sacrificial forgiveness and only towards God at that. Jesus, on the other hand put forth forgiving each other. And, as well, were a Christian man or woman to own a slave they would be expected to treat that person as a part of the family and with the same love and respect you would treat any other human being. It is a sad fact that slavery is a part of the bible. Please. Enthrall me with much of the Old Testament that does not reflect the love and kindness a Christian is expected to offer all people after Jesus. Pardon the sarcasm.

That Kid: Well! Yes, but not only was it adam and eve, but it probably would have had to have been Noah's family as well...correct me if I'm wrong. It's not just about the entire human race being the product of incest. You have many other factors to consider. Like that fact that it would have taken two-thirds more water to cover the earth then was even on the planet even today (i.e. in the clouds, mist, lakes, rivers, oceans, and even underground) It's also the fact that history has shown a wooden boat that size would not work, even without the animals on it, it's just too large for something made of wood. Then you have to consider that the number of animals taken on the ark don't even count for some single number of animals in a species today, and the only way you could explain how more animals could come about is through evolution or God, and which seems more reasonable? Thousands of years of evolution, or God just making more animals after pretty killing all but two of each kind? Why would God kill all those animals and then just make more?

@NickyMan

I am actually totally willing to accept evolution. Why people believe that the concept and God cannot coexist is beyond me and thinking that God in all his wisdom wouldn't allow animals to adapt to their surroundings over time. And I'm to hedge my bets here and call, "Miracle" on the water. We also have no idea as to the design or wooden boat, and it's unfortunate but it's tough for one such as yourself to convince most Christians at least that all of the things in the bible could not have happened with the help of God. It's a tough sell for everyone involved in these kinds of arguments, which makes me sad; the fact that I can't sway people one way or the other definitively without calling upon their faith.

Kid, I think you've "enthralled" yourself quite enough already. You could just as easily be a Muslim spouting the same white-noise, all the while letting nothing else in. Like House said: "You can't reason with religious people. If you could, there would be no religious people." ;)

God knows whose side the angels are on. First He told Bachmann to run, then He told her to drop out. I believe He also told Cain and Gingrich to run. We'll see how that works out for Newt.

"Peace be unto all ye who follow My words; for verily, I will bear witness to thy Father in heaven." Titus 3:15 BE

I'm pretty much done here. Enjoyed the debate but in the end chad is right. You can't reason with people in matters of faith. If you could, there would be no religious people. Even with all the evidence to support a universe where intelligent design isn't necessary, people will always choose to believe what they wish, regardless of how unreasonable it is.

Religion is the acceptance of things happening that we don't have the ability to comprehend. You subscribe to a religious atheism as strongly as I do to Christianity. I don't know what to tell you. I enjoyed the argument? I'm willing to accept that I don't understand everything. I still think you should do some mission work, as per one of my way earlier comments, you might see some things you don't expect and... come on, you do care if people are religious or not, you wouldn't have stayed here if you didn't, haha. Goodnight I suppose! I'm out... Peace, (I was going to post a corny bible verse about finding your way but were I you I would have been insulted so that's out)

I'm a militant atheist, ofc I care if people are religious or not! ;)

Have you ever heard that Man was created with free will - he can do what his conscience wants him to? Also, Evil and Suffering is not God's doing. it is the Devil's who wants people to think exactly the way you do: blame God for war, deaths, sickness, suffering. God allow these things to happen sometimes: even JC was tempted, as well as many others who were and are being tested. How many of us are going to pass the Test?

Nicky: I rest my case. All you said confirms my points. I am not a fundamentalist. I am a realist not a Idealist. Who understands there are questions unanswerable. Even Steven Hawking agrees with that. I have nothing presented to me that makes me rule out ANYTHING... God, ET, The Big Bang, Erinflinberistangering, Not a word here, but who is to say its not French Toast 226,563,777,000 billion light years away. I don't know I haven't been there. Oh you of little faith what a small closed mind you have?

That kid: I actually wanted to come back to tell you that you we're wrong about something you said.

"We also have no idea as to the design or wooden boat"

"Genesis 6:15 in the Bible tells us the Ark's dimensions were at least 135 meters long (300 cubits), 22.5 meters wide (50 cubits), and 13.5 meters high (30 cubits). That's 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high! It could have been larger, because several larger-sized cubits were used. But the 45-centimeter (18-inch) cubit is long enough to show the enormous size of the Ark."

;) Maybe you should go back and read your bible again!

(A cubit was the length of a man's arm from fingertips to elbow.)

Nicky, you are correct when you say that you cannot "reason with" (i.e. persuade) people in matters of faith. I believe that science and religion are not mutually exclusive, but I also understand that it is impossible to debate an issue without some agreement as to the underlying facts of the case. We can argue whether or not the moon is made of green cheese, because we both acknowledge the existence of the moon. Since nobody can either prove or disprove the existence of a universal creator, there is no basis for debate as to what the characteristics of a universal creator might be if it conflicts with a belief. It is similar to the "debate" about abortion. Everyone can agreed that a sperm and an egg create life, but there are different beliefs about when that life begins. If you believe that life begins at conception, then abortion is murder. If you belief that life begins at birth, then abortion is morally equivalent to clipping your toenails.

What I find to be really funny is that the sides, both sides wether you believe in Evolution or you believe in God, you are putting your faith in a man or men, The bible was written by men, evolution is based on science which is done by men, The sides can argue all you want but the reality is your putting your faith in men, Religion to me is more then what you may read in a book, Its a feeling that comes from inside you. I have no faith in any man or men especially when they are politicians or have something to gain from your faith or belief.

I notice that the little weasel bill maher never seems to say anything about the players that take a knee and pray for another player that is in need of a neck brace and is carted off the field on a stretcher to an awaiting ambulance, but he sure flaps his ignorant mouth when it comes to Tim Tebow. I hope Tebow goes all the way just so little jerks like maher and the other haters get it stuffed into their faces.

To all my religionist friends.

Here's the point I think many of you seem to be overlooking. I realize this is hard for you to accept, but religions are slowly being exposed for the man-made factions that they really are. Religion, in the grand scheme of how beautiful, mysterious, and elegant the universe is being exposed to be ... is rather dry and spiritually vacuous. All of our religions (not just Christianity) simply can't compete with the natural world we continue to discover more and more about.

Forget about all the illogical fallacies and mental gymnastics one needs to endear to accept one of these dogmas .... forget about the simple fact that for every day that goes by, science fills in the gaps of your once singular force-representation of "god" .... Forget the simple fact that religions look the exact way we would expect them to look if they were invented by competing factions of cultures, geographies, and tribalistic peoples .... Forget all of that.

Religion (in the face of the mounting-majesty of our understanding of our natural world) simply fails. It fails intellectually, spiritually, philosophically .... basically, it fails at everything.

So what does that mean? That there is no first-cause creator that we would call god? Surely not. It just means that all the tribal, violent, man-made constructs that we've developed in coordinance to worship his name (and the ones you've all been conditioned to relish in) are really just tribal, violent, archaic relics of our past. Created at a time when we didn't even understand weather, let alone Quantum Mechanics.

They are of course important parts of our shared human condition and a vital component in understanding where our history comes from ... but nonetheless ... they belong buried in the same crypts of mythology as the thousands of other man-made gods who came before.

While I realize none of you will be persuaded by this, please realize realty doesn't much care what you "believe". And just from a personal point, I find reality to be much more mystical, awe-inspiring, and wondrous than anything I've ever read in any of your books ... but that's just me.

One question: What if Tebow were Muslim? If he did a "roll out the carpet to face east and pray" thing after every good play would his religion be a boon or bane?

AMF

One thing I just don't understand about this whole "Tewbow" fanaticism.

1. Take Michael Vick, then - Dog Fighting

2. Take Tim Tebow, then - Religious Displays

YOU HAVE THE SAME PLAYER!! and I saw sooooooo...ooooo many comments on how Vick sucked and was selfish and would never make it in the NFL. Besides those two things where could so much hatred come from for MV with on field play being so similar in both cases? Makes me think...WHY AND WHAT??

I'm Just Sayin'......

@chad-1841583

While I agree with a lot of what you say there is one element you left out. FAITH. The highly developed "Super-Ego" ( not gonna go back to my intro psych classes, Google it...) Has a certain degree if faith ingrained in it. Does it matter where that faith comes from? So what if it comes from religion?

For us to become fully-developed human beings, some sort of faith is needed. Some find it in science, some find it in religion, others find it elsewhere. Think perspective, I'm sure the religious people here have just as much pity for you as you do them......

Tebow found his to be...........profitable

I'm Just Sayin'........

For us to become fully-developed human beings, some sort of faith is needed. Some find it in science, some find it in religion

I fail to grasp your correlation here? I think you're confusing faith with belief ... or faith with opinion ... or faith with whatever. There's a huge and resounding difference between faith and the other elements I've highlighted.

Faith is the core opposite of belief, as it objectifies the very nature of evidence. Most religionists will tell you, it's not that they have faith because they've been exposed to a resounding amount of evidence to provide proof/reassurance within their claims. On the contrary ... what many will tell you is that they hold true to their positions regardless of counter-intuitive or contradictory evidence. And in some cases, because of it in fact.

This is simply comparing apples with oranges. Faith is a poisonous, pseudo-rational state-of-being mascaraing as virtue. When someone says they have faith, they are basically saying they are willing to believe in just about anything (regardless of the evidence, or lack thereof).

In science, sure, we can talk about beliefs. But that's still slightly misleading. I don't "believe" in scientific persuasion, I research and study the evidence and come to acceptance within my own terms of that understanding. When better and more accurate data comes along ... well, that means I need to readjust my thinking and reevaluate which evidence is still acceptable and which evidence has become obsolete or found to be inaccurate. But, thats what science does (and why it's not faith). It follows the evidence and appropriates its findings within that of its user's "beliefs", or understanding of said evidence.

I think Franklin summed this position up rather perfectly:

“For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged—by better information or fuller consideration—to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.”

This type of positioning is abject antithesis of "faith".

@Tom1967

How'd that feeling get inside of you? Did someone put it there? Where did your stream of conscience come from? From you parents? Or is it just from observing the world around you? I would like to know what this religion is and what a person can do to be a part of it.

@retiredcoastguard

I am an atheist and I predict that your blood that your blood thirsty Christian God is NOT listening to ignorant quarterbacks from an American Foorlball Team from Denver Colorado!! He and his team will LOOSE to the NE Patriots!!! Lets SEE who God is REALLY listening to.

LOL..Ignorant? One i really am not a football fan , If it was not for Tim Tebow i would not even watch football at all i get tired of the arrogant overpaid players of all sports. TWO , Just because your a Atheist does not mean you have to belittle anyone else religious or not it just makes you look small.

Three.. GO TEBOW !!!!!!!!!!!!

@retiredcoastguard:

1) I rest my case.....Tim Tebow and his team were not only defeated - they were EMBERRASED!! Where was the great spirit father when you need him!!??

2) I dont belltlte anyones religion -- I belittle ALL religions but I especially deride blood thirsty violent religions like Islam and Christianity!

3) and YES -- IGNORANT is almost by definition people who have so little understanding of their own religious beliefs that they think that a Jewish Zombie with the borrowed name of Jersus, will let them live forever if they symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood thereby removing an evil force from their soul that was put there because a talking snake told a ribless women to eat fruit from a magical tree.

while i fully concur with your post and would LOVE nothing more than my kids to look up to this guy, what i find equally amazing is the number of detractors that decry him for his actions. a close friend of mine on facebook posted a picture that reviled him for hypocricy for praying over a football game in light of so many world and domestic plights. i called her directly to the carpet and demanded to know why it's wrong for him to publicly display his gratitude to God for his talent. she had no comeback other than "why can't he pray for world peace? or an end to starvation?" "really? and what makes you think he doesn't pray for those things at different times? when he's on the field, he's doing *his job*, and he's showing his gratitude for God's help. there is precisely NOTHING wrong with that. would you call him out if he were muslim and praying to allah for gratitude?" that pretty much ended the discussion.

cmcca

It's actually pretty simple. As I pointed out in my above post, I just think people find it incredibly nonsensical for people to believe we live in a world where god chooses to intervene in our football games, but not in world affairs that … I don't know … actually matter.

If you took the time to INFORM yourself you would know Tebow DOES NOT ask for devine help in a football game !

Are you aware when christianity first started showing up in history people were forced to meet in secret to avoid persecution !

Back off and show some tolerance for a young man who is a breath of fresh air in the sports world .

Chad: I don't think you're actually aware that Tebow doesn't pray for devine intervention... he's just religious dude, and thanks God for all his talents and abilities.

Tallman: I think most people are getting confused because a lot of people are in fact mistaking the what Tebow is actually doing. I think it's just a matter of religious people misunderstanding and coming out of the woodwork to say that God has a hand in it because they feel that people will accept religion more or God more if they see a man pray and can say that great things happen to him because he has God on his side. It's like they're way of saying "You want proof of God? Looks at all the great things that happen to this person".

You people make me laugh. Now all you tebow lovers know what he really prays for. What fouls.

Tallman how do you know why he thinks or asks for in prayer?

Well said Rick-331120.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter what I believe. But Tebow has his beliefs and he stands strong to them. He has not once gone negative against those this hat him. NOT ONCE... He is a class act and should be left alone. I'm a die hard Bears fan, but leave this kid alone. The only thing he has done wrong is play better than most teams. I hope he wins it all.

I like Tebow, here is a guy playing football, winning, and thanking God for the opportunity. He is more criticized than the football players with history of domestic violence, raping women, driving drunk, brutally killing dogs and dealing drugs. Geez... give the guy a break.

The problem with Tebow is that not only is he the flavor of the month, his thanking God for his opportunities is taking precedence over the players that are not known so much for their playing, but for rapes, prostitutes, drug arrests, shootings, animal torture, vehicular manslaughter, DWIs, domestic abuses. Do we as parents really want a stand up, down to earth person as a role model for our children?

Retirednavy:

WRONG!

He has gone negative on others. When you make TV Spots for a virulently anti gay organization that calls gay people filthy names and spreads hate, spreads lies and constantly misrepresents research (As stated by the organizations whose research they misrepresented--Judith Stacey, Kyle Pruitt, Carol Gilligan, Robert Spritzer, Angela Phillips, Gary Remafedi and Elizabeth Saewyc who all came out and criticized or condemned them for doing so) and attempts to deprive people of basic human rights (ones you take for granted) you have gone negative, you have supported hate and you do not deserve any respect at all.

To openly publicly support an organization which bears false witness is not very Christian now is it? Seems that violates one of the 10 Commandments to me.

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By Lockerz

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! . . . Which justify the wicked . . . Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness . . . because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.” Isa. 5:20, 21, 23, 24.

Frankly True, After having read several of your posts, I have come to the following conclusions...

1) You are a false Christian, if you are any type of Christian. The Bibgle (for those who believe in the Word) states unequivocally that homosexuality is wrong. Homosexuality is sonething that is to be hated by Christians, although he people living the lifestylw are not to be hated. have you never heard of "hate the sin but love the sinner"?

2) You really are a hateful person, based on your posts and quite frankly, it is alarming to know that you are indoctrinating children in Sunday School to your anti-biblical stances.

3) You are not aware of whatthe Bibgle dictates for Christians. If you really wish for me to come back in here and teach you where you violate the very tenets of Christianity and where your homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God, just let me know.

I am not going to debate with people on here the validity of the Bible, the validity of Christianity or the fact that there is no such thing as "homophobia". My posts are for those who claim to be Christians but cannot fathom the true directives of the Bible.

As for Tim Tebow, he is an awesome Christian. I think it is great the way he gives all glory to the Lord for the blessings he has received. If you notice, Tim gives the same praise and glory after a loss as he does after a win. He has never credited a win to the Lord's actions, nor has he ever blamed a loss on Satan or on the Lord's actions. He has the faith that the Lord wishes all of us would have. He has the willingness to proclaim Jesus to be his Lord and Savior as the Lord demands that His children do. As the Bible says, the time will come when evry knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess His glory. Tim knows this and he is way ahead of most of us in doing what we as Christians have been called to do.

Tim Tebow does not throw hate at those who disgree with him; he does, however, call sin sin and that is what we are supposed to do. I have yet to see anyone lead by example as well as this young man does and quite frankly, regardless of what he does for a living I would be thrilled to see each of my daughters marry a guy like Tim Tebow.

If Tebow flew a plane into a building packed with children while screaming Allah, the main stream (media?) would go nuts if you called him a mooslim terrorist.

If more people actually stood up for they they believed in... there would be a lot more athesit like myself. Unfortunately! A lot of them are afraid to come out about it because they fear religious persecution or even death(because it's illegal in their countries). Trust me! That's how it works. I have nothing against Tebow. Although I don't watch football or even care too, it always bothers me when people are like "Oh this person is so great, because they're a Christian". Religion has nothing to do with how moral or right a person is. In fact, in a lot of cases religious people are actually more immoral than non-believers. Look at 9-11 for example! People should honestly go back and actually read their own bibles before they start talking about how moral religion is, and how you need religion to be a moral person.

"an intelligent person does not need the promise of heaven to see the merit in good deeds"

That's true, but I'm pretty sure Hitler justified his persecution of the Jews. I'm willing to bet that many, many people who do evil believe that they are in the right when they do it. You're right about the bible thing, by the way. Muslim extremists (the people we see as behind 9-11) used the same scriptures as Christians do and still, through all the words of love and peace, decided to commit the atrocities we see over and over on the news. The point is that Christians should believe in what is written in the bible, mainly the New Testament ( the Old is important too but the New provides forgiveness, revoking many of those practices). If those beliefs are what is being practiced then I'm sure the world would be better for it. Being, "religious" to me means that one follows the doctrines of one's religions and the people you cite most definitely were not.

Hitler (a catholic by the way) pretty much justified the entire holocaust based on what some famous Christian had to say about the Jews(although it can be debated). Google: "Martin Luther".

...and you're very much right! Many people do feel they're in the right when they're really in the wrong, and find all sorts of ways to justify it. I'm just pointing out that many(not most or even close to most) do so based on their creeds. The point is, even in the New Testament Jesus himself said that no law could be invalidated. That it was easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for the smallest letter of the law to become invalid. That my friend was in the New Testament, aloong with others things like:

" I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." - 1 Timothy 2:12 (New International Version)

If people still want to believe in God, and Christianity, and the Bible. They need to understand the facts, all the facts, and not dismiss things they find unpleasent or distasteful. The Bible is full of nasty stories of God killing tens of millions of people all the way from genesis to revelations. He tells fathers to kill their daughters for not being virgins on their wedding, even if they lost their virginity from being raped. I'm not gonna go into all the bad things from the bible if you want to know more look at:

nvm guess I can't post links

The point is, if people really want to go on about how great Christianty is, and how God's word is ultimate and final, they they should start folloing all of it, to every letter, and see how far it get's them in life. I can promise after a few murders, people will stop telling the judge and jury that "God said I could so I did it".

Would you people support him if he was a Muslim? One who was for peace and understanding?

No?

Hmmm

I will admit I personally have a very tough time with many of the statements made by the apostles in their letters concerning women. Jesus himself never said anything to that effect however, and in that sense human fallacy comes into play even among some of the most Godly men in history. All are equal before God and Peter may have been speaking through the culture, although of course every word spoken by Jesus was not recorded and he may very well have said such things.

Yes, in the Old Testament there are many rules, mainly in Leviticus, where people may be stoned for any kind of infidelity. But, as seen in the New Testament, Jesus preaches the forgiveness that he can give and that which we should offer to others. Note, "Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone" He does say the old laws are still in place, and I haven't gone so far to wear white robes and tassels but you should check out the book (by comedic writer A.J. Jacobs) Living Biblically for a Year. It provides a good insight into that very mindset (and he does "stone" adulterers when following the Old Testament, not quite to the extent described however).

There are parts people want to edit out (I am especially fond of a verse where two bears maul forty-two of a village's youth because they called a priest "baldhead"). But as I said many of those things are wiped clean by the blood of Jesus in the New Testament.

And as I think I said before claiming to be a part of a religion does not automatically put your heart in the right place, whereas many times following the commandments of the religion (especially Christianity) does.

ROFL, Hitler was raised by a Catholic mother. He NEVER practiced the faith as an adult. I find it amazing and amusing when people throw that kind of inane argument into the mix.

I admire Tebow's courage by showing his strong faith and gratitude in today's world. May God continue to bless him in mighty ways!

Morality is not defined by religion, and many people make that mistake when they say more people should be like Tebow because he's a Christian, when in fact they should be more like Jesus, who Tim Tebow, as a professed Christian is trying to emulate. You are right, religion is and can be a terrible thing, that's why we need to make the distinction between a follower of Christ and a religious Christian. There are many professing "Christians" who live nothing like Christ or even try to and that gives those imperfect-yet-still-trying followers a bad name, and in turn religion. Everybody is involved in religion, by it's very meaning (a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe), even you as an atheist. As an atheist, there is no sense of morality, it's basically the basis of your belief system is it not? There is no god, I am my own god and I do what I feel like, (or something like that, right?). Whithout a defined set of "rules" there is no structure or basis for what is good and moral. Isn't goodness and morality a relative thing to an atheist? If it's not, what are you using for you basis, as a guideline for what is good?

"You say your atheist I dont go and cry about it. Geez annoying!!!!!" + "people are scared of the truth and where they might end up all I have to say is sucks for you!" = IRONY

And this is why people give Christians crap, because majority of Christians believe their beliefs to be the end all be all and if you don't bow down and be saved, you are condemned to hell. They are the worst of all the religions when it comes to forcing their beliefs on you. (Not all but the majority)

I am no atheist, I believe in God but I don't believe in religion. I live my life with morals and hold myself to a high standard of good everyday, not to be reincarnated as a butterfly, not to have 12 virgins waiting for me, and not to have my soul spend an eternity praising and worshiping. I do it for my fellow man and I do it because i believe we all are accountable for each other and ultimately we all affect each others lives. and when i do wrong i don't have the luxury just praying for forgiveness or going to a confession booth, I hold my self responsible and do everything in my power to not commit the acts again. consider this a few years ago, a few companies, allowed a few thousand people to purchase homes they couldn't afford... in some way or another we were all affected by the chain of events that followed. I dont push my beliefs on anyone because to me as long as we are all doing the common good then that's all that matters. which makes me pose a question if a Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Buddhist all spend their lives together, dedicated to helping those that are unfortunate, which ones are going to hell?

On topic: Im happy for the broncos. I will definitely be rooting for them come this weekend and not only because I despise the pats but I genuinely want them to go all the way, coming from a Jets Fan.

Mr. Non Prophet! You may have just won the prize for the most idiotic post today!

You just did everything you claim you hate about Christians. How does it feel to be belittled because of your religious belief system.

Your statement: "I don't push my beliefs on anyone because to me as long as we are doing the common good that is all that matters". Where did you learn that form of religion? Oh, you came up with it yourself. So you are actually above God. Thats what Satan thought and look what happened to him..You think that you make God's rules..How enlightening. You just pushed your belief on everyone. You say you do believe in God, but yet he allows you to make his rules?? Christian's believe the Bible is the word of God. Christians beliefs regarding God comes from the Bible, not our own minds. The only God you believe in is yourself. You have put yourself above God by determining that your rules are all that count. There is no greater sin than that.

When Christians profess their faith, it is because that is what the Bible says to do. You think Christians are ignorant because they believe the Bible. Well, you only believe in what you have come up with in your mind. I would rather place my faith in God's word than with your mind. Sounds like you are trying to convert everyone to your religion. If not why did you bring it up. If a Christian brings up their belief system people like you get offended and spout off like you just did. Typical left wing screwball. You seem to think that spending your life helping others is what will keep you out of hell? Where did you get that brilliant theory, Oh yeah, this comes from the authority of Mr. Non Prophet, the greatest mind in history. Eternity is a long time, I think I will try try to know God through his word so that I will truly understand what he wants from his children. Do you think it is impossible for our creator to not have a way of communicating his plan and wishes for his creation. Christians believe that he has done so through the bible. When people call Christians vile names and hate on them because they think they are right, remember this, we do not think we are right because we are all knowing like you, we think God is right and we put our faith in his word. You are the intolerant one, you want people to believe in your self taught theology and if we choose to follow the Bible, we are the idiots.If you truly want to know God, seek him out earnestly through prayer and he will guide you to him. If you want to take a chance and believe what your brilliance has come up with go ahead but remember eternity is a long time, (a blink of the eye compared to our time on earth, you better hope that you are right) Quit trying to convince us to adopt your theory. By the way, I like good fiction...Where can I get a copy of the Mr. Non Prophet Bible? Do you sell it on Amazon?In spite of my sarcasim, I really do hope you find the true God, and so does he. Maybe one day if you truly find him you can bring others to him rather than to a dead end life.

Fail. While I agree with most of what you said, maybe not exactly, your intent GEMTAM was destroyed by your post. Sarcasm probably was not the best route to take when rebutting Non Prophet. While entertaining, it could have used a touch more tact. Just saying.

i must admit you did put a nice smile on my face today gemtam, your sarcasm was very funny. whats realy funny though is how you claim i tried to push "my made up religion" on to everyone but yet you spend and entire paragraph telling me how wrong i am and what I need to do, for example:

"You are the intolerant one, you want people to believe in your self taught theology and if we choose to follow the Bible, we are the idiots.If you truly want to know God, seek him out earnestly through prayer and he will guide you to him. If you want to take a chance and believe what your brilliance has come up with go ahead but remember eternity is a long time, (a blink of the eye compared to our time on earth, you better hope that you are right) Quit trying to convince us to adopt your theory. By the way, I like good fiction...Where can I get a copy of the Mr. Non Prophet Bible? Do you sell it on Amazon?In spite of my sarcasim, I really do hope you find the true God, and so does he. Maybe one day if you truly find him you can bring others to him rather than to a dead end life."

Anyway my intentions was not to persuade anyone to believe what I believe, but just merely stating my beliefs. I cant help to point the logical fallacies in your way of thinking, when you say i must think i am a god for starting "My own Religion", at what point did god actually come down and start a religion? Oh yeah that's right, they are all man made (some sarcasm for you); including the bible, koran, ect. nothing wrong with that at all, just kind of funny that you belittle "my man made beliefs" but practice yours, wait you speak for god of course and he told you that your religion is the right one.

I didn't come on here and talk down on anyone's religion i just stated why people give Christians crap because majority of them try to shove their beliefs down everyone else throats (see above). if it takes you to use what ever holy sacrament, Bible, Koran, Tanakh, or whatever it is you base your beliefs in to do good in the world and live your life in by a set principles that contribute to society in a good and meaningful way, then do that; who am i to judge and condemned you to hell?

Oh and for the record I'm not a "left wing" screwball, and I don't know how you got that from my post but okay. I dont pledge my allegiance to any party, sadly it appears that you do.

Trust me dude! Not at all to be offensive in any way, but Christians are all about being ignorant, or should I say less educated... Not that you can't have educated Christians. It's just really funny for a person to say that a Christian ignoring something and only mentioning what they feel is most supportive to their faith/religion(since Tebow seems to be the one in the spot light for his beliefs), is very un-christian like. If you look at all the facts...most Christians can't even tell you half of the stuff they should know about their own religion, or just outright ignore the nasty bits of the Bible, and continue to cherrypick the thing to death.

"only quoting happy verses in the bible, is like only talking about the driving parts in grand theft auto"

There are very few, "nasty bits" left over after the New Testament. But you are correct in that many self proclaimed Christians ignore the parts of their faith that take them outside of their comfort zone. American believers especially trend towards that "cafeteria Christianity" I'm okay with that until one of them goes around proclaiming their faith and blatantly disregarding the bible's teachings at the same time, it really brings down the world view of Christians as a whole unfortunately.

The funny thing, Fred, is the mainstream media never made such a big deal out of those publicly praying Christian football players who came before Tebow; not one was ridiculed in the media. So "the Tebow thing is going crazy" you are seeing is the Christian outpouring of support.

THANK YOU @disgusted one-3673164

Soooooo many Christian football players strut their stuff every Sunday. Never heard about them before.

THE SHORT LIST:

Reggie White (a little snippet here and there, he was the Minister of Defense after all)

Jason Avant

Brian Dawkins

Terrell Suggs

Mike Singletary

Emmett Smith

Randall Cunningham

.....and pretty much any player who points upward when they make a great play!!

Tim Tebow=Mike Vick... minus the dog fighting. I don't see why there is so much hype......

The hype is there because the mainstream media has placed it there. Then there are the people who deride Tebow for his faith, which I don't think was directed in quite the same way towards those aforementioned others, at least not publicly. So really, as said before, it's more of an outpouring of support, to help build up and "get in the face" if you will, of those who try to tear him down. Not to mention the fact that to date, he has talked the talk and walked the walk, if I can use that cliché, which is pretty amazing for a publicly professing Christian. I would say the difference between Tebow and Vick are quite different, at least from a superficial standpoint of never having met either of them.

@woodrow-664824

Naa, I just hate him cause he sucks. His numbers suck. He has had 1 good game and plays like Vick and even Vick has put up better throwing/rushing numbers.

He's just not a good QB.

How do I explain the wins? The TEAM (notice how I capitalized that...) fervor started in training camp and that has in the past and will in the future, affect and effect a TEAMS playing ability.

........This from a guy (me) who goes to church on Sunday and TIVO's the first game EVERY WEEK!!

Get off your knees and get tebows nuts out of your mouth.

He believes what he believes because his parents were missionaries and that is where he was brainwashed as a small child. He is a football player because he was not smart enough to do much else or break the spell that his religious beliefs have over hom. If he had been born in Thailand he would be a Budhist and if he had been born in Kuwait he would be a Muslim. It is not like it a a legitimate concious choice.

Duh..We all know that it is a team game..According to most haters like yourself, if Denver wins it was the team that made it happen. However, if Denver loses it is all because of Tebow..We see you out there ep1237, and we know your game, nice try!

no but this is an open forum outside of that atheist's don't criticize anything - we can't out in public without backlash, it is openly acceptable to bash atheism but we don't even knock your door we don't walk around with necklace with an A on it if a scientific theory is proved wrong we move on & accept it I could say look god doesn't exist because he lost on dec 24th & you would respond rightfully so I was a christian the problem was I did open my eyes

I God blessed the USA --- who blessed CHINA?? They are growing at a healthy 40% per year ans we are at 2.5%

nice way of bashing non christian's with that comment you are the majority here in this country 99% of politicians claim the christian card you have representation - every one knows Jesus many countries have been invaded by crusaders they have their own gods there is very few places on this earth where no one has heard of Jesus you want more people to accept Jesus stop preaching & lead by example your statement says I am a christian I believe so I am superior to your beliefs it saddens me many people will waste this life for an afterlife that does not exist

What is your excuse going to be when the Patriots crush the Broncos and the bible freak next week? Did you see the flying people over his head blowing their horns? All statues of Mary in the U.S started to cry blood.

Mark,

where did that one cell come from that you believe made you?

@Floyd --- I am SHOCKED that a religious guy like you would not have a 5th grade understanding of mammalian reproduction.........BUT......can I recommend a biology class for you or better yet- clearly you have a computer and read and write the english language...usr those skills to GOOGLE search mammalian Reproduction and get an education before you comment again!