E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Regretsy
As GeekGreenGirl and other cyber citizens blasted soon after the PayPal vs. Regretsy debacle set the Internet on fire, PayPal had its own policies wrong when it shut down the surly satire site's holiday charity drive and froze the site founder's personal and business accounts.
Following a few days of public scorn, PayPal was so anxious to apologize that it issued public statements saying it had done just that — hours and hours before anyone at Regretsy received any kind of call. Which just goes to show: If you ever find yourself under the thumb of a corporate monolith, make sure you have an army of Internet followers to back you up.
That's the opinion of April Winchell — founder of Regretsy, an insanely popular satire site that pokes fun at the insanely popular craft marketplace site Etsy — and pretty much anybody who's had to deal with "customer service" — or the lack thereof in our increasingly automated age.
"The days of a company rewarding you for your loyalty are just over," Winchell wrote in a Regretsy update notifying readers of PayPal's official apology. "No one knows how to treat you anymore. No one cares."
"I think this is why this whole thing has resonated so deeply with people. We are all working very hard in a bad economic climate, and every cent we spend really matters. And corporations continue to treat us like they’re the only ones who are hurting."
Resonate indeed. Between Monday and Tuesday on my own Facebook account, I received no less than 30 links to Winchell's increasingly angry posts about how PayPal shut down the Regretsy Secret Santa charity drive, insisting that the site return the donations while keeping a service fee. The story blew up on Twitter as well as Facebook, with "Regretsy" breaking into Twitter's Top Trends by Tuesday morning.
The reason originally given Winchell for the closed account — that as a for-profit organization collecting for charity it needed to use the "Buy Now" or "Shopping Cart" buttons instead of the "Donate" button — didn't make sense to many. (Take a hop, skip and a jump over to the Green Geek's blog, where, in a post titled "Why PayPal is wrong regarding Regretsy, according to its own policies," the PayPal Terms of Service legalese is deconstructed, and evidence is presented to support this thesis.)
Eventually, it didn't make sense to PayPal, as Winchell says a rep told her:
According to the Paypal executive who called me today, “The information you were given about using the donation button was definitely incorrect, and at the end of the day, it was an error in judgment on the agent’s part.”
Notably, PayPal contacted Winchell only after it sent this statement to Digital Life — as well as other media outlets. And unlike the flat out "our bad" Winchell says she received, there seems to be some passive-aggressive blame placed straight up in Regretsy's lap:
We can’t comment specifically on the Regretsy.com account due to our privacy policy. However, we can confirm that the funds have been released and we are working directly with the account holder on this matter. We are also making a donation to Regretsy to help families in need this holiday season. We’re very sorry this occurred.
For reference, we have clear guidelines for any business who uses PayPal to accept donations. For example, we require certain documentation to prevent misuse of the donated funds and, if the recipient claims charitable status, to determine whether they are properly registered. As a regulated payment service, we’re also required by law to follow these guidelines.
We appreciate that this can be an inconvenience, but we have a responsibility to all our customers – both donors and recipients; or buyers and sellers. In this instance, we recognized our error and moved as swiftly as possible to fix it.
So what did happen? It seems the Secret Santa charity drive was a victim of its own success. Seeking to raise money for 200 hundred families in the Regretsy community "who might not get much otherwise," the $4,000 goal was met within hours after it was posted on the site:
According to Paypal, the red flags started flying because of how fast the donations came in. It wasn’t that we did anything wrong – it was that we did it too well. As I told you in this post, we were overfunded very quickly – in a couple of hours – and that set off a review process at Paypal.
And you know what? I have no problem with that. I have a 10+ year record of fundraising through Paypal, including over $150,000 raised in just the last two years for various causes. So I should pass any review with flying colors.
But this is where it all went wrong. Because according to the Paypal executive, this part of the process is “subjective”. At this point, a representative makes a call based on very sophisticated and nuanced criteria they don’t have to disclose to you, and by that I mean, I had a big lunch and I’m tired.
So it’s a crapshoot. And anything can happen. And it did.
As it stands, PayPal unfroze Winchell's personal and business accounts — after thousands of dollars in donations were returned – and discussed donating a $100 gift card to each of the 200 families in the Secret Santa Drive.
Well, at least that's resolved. Sort of.
Now, on to the many many many many many complaints over at PayPalSucks.com, "the world's largest eBay and PayPal consumer gripe site network," which offers links to 18 "other quality sites about PayPal abuses."
"I think we all know that Paypal’s apologies and reversals were motivated by the intense scrutiny they’ve been subjected to," Winchell writes. "If I were Sally’s Soap Shack, I would be waiting out that six month hold right now and wondering how to make Ramen noodles taste like Christmas ham."
More on the annoying way we live now:
- PayPal says 'our bad' on Regretsy charity scandal
- How to monitor major Twitter twantrums
- Etsy scans your Facebook friends for gift ideas
Helen A.S. Popkin goes blah blah blah about the Internet. Tell her to get a real job on Twitter and/or Facebook. Also, Google+.
Leave a Comment:
I've been following this whole debacle on Consumerist and it was ridiculous from the start. I'm glad they bowed to pressure since the initial rep didn't let a little thing like logic get in the way!
We all hates paypal and now subtabz team development announce his
Subtabz PayPal Clone PHP
check subtabz.com
The problem is that paypal requires that you let them steal your money for 6 months for any reason or for no reason, and there is nothing you can do about it. In a real negotiation, no one would accept such terms, but in this modern age we allow powerful companies like paypal write one-sided contracts with arbitrary conditions and force them on people. And, worse than that, the government insists that any breech of these "contracts" is an instant felony no matter how trivial, simply because a computer is involved. Effectively, every company on the Internet is allowed to create its own federal laws and force anyone who visits their site to obey these private laws.
The whole thing is sick. These one-sided contracts should be illegal.
They're called "Contracts of Adhesion" and you're exactly right. It's a massive restraint of trade and they're cropping up everywhere. You can't get a mobile phone without agreeing to dozens of pages of "rights" reserved to the operator and taken from you.
You can't see a doctor or get a job these days without waiving your right to sue should something go wrong.
In addition, these practices have a tendency to spread across entire industries, preventing customers form "voting with their money" if they don't like the policies.
They've existed for a long time, but the (perceived) abuses are relatively new. I do think they need to be reigned in, but I'm not sure how that happens unless you have strong competition in all markets.
Maybe we could complain to the Government? Oh, No,the Republicans don't want the American Citizens to have "Consumer Protection"!
Capitalism= A policy where the Corporations and Government gets to run roughshod over the rights people.
Renee is dead on these internet companies are just as bad as the banks and they need to be heavily regulated.
Visit Change.org and sign David Kavanagh's petition asking the FTC to investigate PayPal.
For the life of me, I can't undertand why PayPay has not been investigated for holding clients funds. The fiasco they did years ago went unchecked; thousands of clients had to prove it was their funds to get their own money back. Why the Treasury or Postal Commissioner have not seen fit to look into PayPal is amazing.
There are too many cases; and they continue; probably citing the 80/20 rule; with the 20 being blamed for their own problems.
Something stinks here; big time!
Here is a cartoon everyone should see. It's a great example of how paypal likes to operate
youtube.com/watch?v=wV2fk56ktVE
I once wanted to open a PayPal account, but I had a question that only a human being could answer. 2 years later I still have no account, and havel never been able to contact one of those human thingies over there.
What was your question? Paypal's rules and policies are pretty straightforward. There isn't much complexity to it.
Should not matter one bit what the question is, could be "What is the barometer at the paypal offices today?" for all I care. The bigger issue that you should glean from the post is the lack of chance of getting a hold of a human being (preferably one who speaks English without an accent so thick that they may as well be speaking Punjabi) , which is getting harder and harder these days.
The one, and only, time I needed to ask Paypal a question, I was able to talk to a human and get it resolved in less than 15 minutes... so, I'm not sure what the problem was.
Just took me literally 20 seconds to find their phone number on their website. 1-888-221-1161
So there you go SpanglishHoosier, you can talk to your real life human thingy.
I do not believe you! I have tried for hours and hours to get in touch with paypal and I have never gotten through in 15 minutes. As far as them resolving a problem on the spot---hold on a minute while I laugh.
Der Capn belongs in "Guinness Book of Records".
Their goofiness in releasing funds removed them from our list of payment methods for our business. Businesses cannot live on having their money frozen for six months at the whim of a fool. Merchants are better off dealing with credit cards, the dispute system affects only the questioned transaction, not the whole account.
PayPal has not, in fact, agreed to donate the $100 gift cards to the families at this point. They are still discussing it, according to Regretsy.
paypal does suck...bill me later is wonderful though...that paypal guest payment system not bad as well. I particularly believe paypal's policies are crap and the company is poorly run...had a guy try to steal a car on ebay by telling paypal he never authorized payment, was summarily reversed when I contacted the police in his city regarding the theft.
I watched the YouTube video; lost the audio; but one silly question; How was he able to speak to a "human being?"....Can't seem to do that in real life....ahh...that's it...make believe...duh!!!!
Boy! did I get Sucked in?
One wonders if this isn't the tip of the iceberg, a customer who was able to bring publicity to their situation, when perhaps hundreds or thousands have not.
I will be continuing to evaluate the viability of Paypal as a business solution.
There are other financial partners that may be far less grabby with other people's money.
Last August , I had a problem with Pay-Pal suddenly freezing my deposits / funds not available for 21 days after they were recieved. I could put all the money in the world into Pay Pal but had to wait three weeks or more to access it. Neither Pay-Pal nor its parent company eBay could give a satisfactory explanation for this action. Probably some devious algorithim . I felt I had been spurned without being able to confront whatever or whoever precipitated the suspension, rather arbitrarily or capriciously in the absence of a stated reason. So on Day 22 , I drew down my Pay Pal account to a few bucks and walked away . I also ceased selling stuff on eBay , since they were also complicit but also either silent or couldn't be bothered to do real customer service or tend an explanation despite me asking for one. Instead, I got canned generic e-mail explanations that had a somewhat chastizing tone.
Miraculously , about a week ago , Pay Pal was suddenly my new best friend and flooded me with all kinds of tantalizing offers ,and eBay was right behind them with all manner of holiday specials and suggestions. Must be Christmas or something .
Fool me once, shame on you . Fool me twice.... no way , Pay-Bay
I have used Paypal for years with absolutely no problems. It's another safety layer for me. I'm sure most of the complainers are borderline deadbeats.
Obviously a Paypal troll!! It is not possible to have Paypal for more than a week without problems--especially if you are NOT a deadbeat but a responsible business owner.
I use PayPal because many sellers on Ebay require it, when I called them for
help setting up the account the Assistant I talked to was very helpful. I wish
those with problems with PayPal speedy and fair resolutions to their problems.
Ah yes because you've never had a proplem with them, then problem must not exist and those that complain must be deadbeats. Brilliant, why hadn't we all thought of that!!!! I finally realize that every company in the world is perfect, all those people who complained about lead in items from China were deadbeats, all those killed by tainted fruit this summer---deadbeats. Awesome, I'm going forward with a new outlook on life, thanks klondiko!!!!!!
You are a troll!
Gee, this is the closest to talking to a human who works for PayPal than any of us have ever gotten!
I've never had a problem with my PayPal account. I've also never had cancer. But I am absolutely certain that both things have happened to other people.
May the OP start living in interesting times, start having to meet interesting people and start having to learn new and interesting things combined with a new and interesting economic status.
I was raising money for my Mom who has cancer, then PayPal froze my account this past October. Now we have to wait 6 months until PayPal will release the funds.
Nice job PayPal, right before Christmas. Now PayPal wants to ruin Christmas for 200 more families.
Sorry that your account got frozen. Paypal is really just not earning fans. Good luck to your mom.
@Klondiko I'm a student who sells graphics and my own arts on the side to help afford to purchase books I'll need. I'm one of the people who donated to the Secret Santa. For the record: You're not a dead beat for using a system or having a problem. You're not a dead beat for something affecting you. While it's possible some of the paypal complaints may be from people seeking damages for something wholly their problem, it's highly unlikely all problems stem from deadbeats.
Also, I am glad Regretsy is able to still help the 200 children, the reason the majority of people were pissed wasn't that April was affected, though that attributed to it. It was from the thought that 200 kids would be affected again because a corporation couldn't see past their one lone agents refusal to help.
Now if only that "one lone agent" lost his job over this debacle, it might start to restore some people's faith in paypal...if only a smidgin.
It would be nice if this article described what it is that happened and what Regretsy is at the beginning. Poor journalism.
This has been covered by many major media outlets all over the world and was one of the most discussed topics on several forms of social media over the last three days. From a journalistic standpoint, it's a bit late to write an article that starts with a complete synopsis.
Today is the anniversary of John Lennon's death. There's an article in the Vancouver Sun today that not only doesn't mention how he died or who he was, but it has a picture of Ringo Starr with a caption saying he was a member of "the cult band The Beetles." THAT is poor journalism.
Perhaps the topic had been covered, but that does not mean that a journalist writing a story about it can abdocate their responsibility to the reader. A short synopsis of what happened is acceptable and done frequently with follow up stories.
PayCrooks has had it's own policies wrong from the day they opened their doors. Absolutely one of the worst companies in the U.S. Hope this latest debacle puts them out of business once and for all.
PayPals as well as Ebays conflicting policies cost me the income of a sale I made this past summer. Even after proving they had 3 different wordings of their policies, no one would admit fault.
Happy to hear it only takes an army of internet people to get things resolved.
I haven't sold anything on PayPal in about 1.5 years. Last month I get an email saying my transactions are questionable and they have to hold my money for 30 days next time I make a sale.
OOOOKKKAAAYYYY, PayPal.
Yep, same thing happened to me. I am just a private individual, not a Power Seller or professional dealer. I buy a lot more than I sell, and only low-priced small household goods I don't need any more such as a coffee machine, some old DVD's, books, ... Why are my funds deemed "questionable" and subject to a 30-day hold ? That's just BS to keep my $ and earn interest for 30 days. I only use Paypal when I have no other choice. This is just a reflection of how mega corporations can bully and screw consumers.
PayPal is a bad bad company! a crooked company! I have experienced the very same horror stories I have been reading in these comments. I DO NOT GIVE INTEREST FREE LOANS! PP seems to have taken such loans however by hijacking my money while they "verify" that I am an honest eBay seller. I guess having been with eBay and PP for over ten years with not one negative feedback is not enough! Anyway, there is not real point to this comment other then to vent and say that I hope they burn!
Don't like Paypal?
1. Don't use them. I don't smile and make nice with people who aren't nice.
2. Start a better Paypal. You've seen how NOT to do it.
I use Paypal, they use me. If/when they get too greedy, I'll go elsewhere and wait until they bribe me to come back. Vote with your dollars, businesses say they care about SO MUCH else, but cummon...
I never had a problem with them, but I don't use them much. It seems like as long as you're a small operator with minimal transactions with low dollar amounts, you're not under their radar. They seem to treat people badly if you're successful. This is completely wrong.
There needs to be an alternative company. Competition works as well as a public lashing.
Never had a problem with them either and Ive use them to purchase and sell only around $15K worth of merchandise over 12 yrs.
I'd rather light my money on fire than allow PayPal to handle it. I had one major bad episode with them that involved rude, obtuse customer service that ended up costing me a few bucks. Perhaps they considered it but a pittance but... the principle carries more value than the cash.
I don't make the same mistake twice.